Self-bailing cockpits vs bilge pumps

More
2 years 9 months ago #10769 by josephrohdes221
josephrohdes221 replied the topic: Self-bailing cockpits vs bilge pumps
The nice thing about conventional self-bailing cockpits is that, if you get pooped or knocked down, the load of water in the cockpit will be gone (hopefully) soon and the adverse affect on the boat's trim will be gone with it. If ridding the boat of such unwanted burden takes a while, as it would with electric pumps, it increases the chance of getting pooped again. If the electrics go south, either through extended pumping or other trauma, and the volume to be emptied is enough to affect trim, you have a big problem.
Boats are full of compromises, but I wouldn't introduce the limited capacity and unreliability of electric pumps for a cockpit of any significant volume.

At the WB show in July, there was an Araminta with a curious cockpit. The seat level of the cockpit was above LWL and there were scuppers to drain to that level. There was a SMALL footwell, whose bottom was probably below LWL which was emptied by pumps of some kind. The volume of the foot well was small enough (maybe 6 ft^3) that if it got filled and stayed filled, the trim of the boat would not be unduly affected. A nifty solution to the problem.
chile white wood
Hope i helped
Joseph Rohdes

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
6 years 2 months ago #3330 by skipperwbw
skipperwbw replied the topic: Re: Self-bailing cockpits vs bilge pumps
The tug in my profile pic is just a regular old towboat. I pushed lots of barges up and down the East Coast with it, and also an occasional trip to the Gulf Coast, via the Okeechobee waterway..... I also ran a big old green and white model bow tug for the same company, for offshore tows.....

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
6 years 6 months ago #2079 by Leotis
Leotis replied the topic: Re: Self-bailing cockpits vs bilge pumps
Having quite a bit of expierience on crew supply boats with Leaktroits and I've been on a few tugs that kept 6 inches of water in the bilge, I've tightened my share of stuffing boxes. I agree with everything you've said skipper, but i still do not plan on using pop up cleats I'm going to use Hawse pipes with cleats mounted under the gunnels, where any water that comes in will land on the deck and drain out before it ever hits the bilge. Sounds easy but there is not a real or full proof way to keep the water out of the bilge, i'm just going to minimize it best i can. Is that a Tractor Tug in your profile pic or a Dredge boat? Normal amount of leakage? Take the pop up cleat raise it up and tie your boat off, Make it rain and watch the rope absorb water and feed it down into the bilge at an alarming rate. Just a suggestion put the pop up cleat in a tub with a drain hose connected to it and direct the water where you want it to go. I bet you could get some made out of aluminum for about a quarter of what that cleat cost.

Wish I were building 22 ENVI Offshore Center Console "Ultimate"

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
6 years 6 months ago #2076 by skipperwbw
skipperwbw replied the topic: Re: Self-bailing cockpits vs bilge pumps
that theory is VERY old......but still practiced quite a bit... yes, dripless seals have been around for a long time now, but you'll find a surprising number of boats that don't have them.... and yes, you are correct, no one intends for thru-hulls, rub rails,bow fasteners, etc......

I think we're all getting a bit carried away here.... the topic started over the installation of pop up cleats, and the amount of leakage they might allow..... and I will stand by my original thoughts that if you have the area around them (on the inside of the gunnels) well glassed and/or sealed, the amount of water that could splash in should not pose any threat to the hull over a very extended period of time, if it is well channelled down into the bilge and to the pump....

as far as relying on a battery operated pump to do it's job.......surely you're not gonna put the time, effort, and cash, into this build, and then put a shit battery or charging system in it......... if you leave a boat sit in the water it's connected to shore power, or at least an extension cord powering a batter tender. if it's a trailer boat, it's gonna be out of the water, the plug pulled, and stored on a slight incline so that it stays drained, and a rainstorm doesn't swamp it. (should you be out of town, and it not be covered)

in any of these cases, I don't think the boat is going to rot OR sink, due to the amount of water that sprays in through pop-up cleats........

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
6 years 6 months ago - 6 years 6 months ago #2075 by Ricardo
Ricardo replied the topic: Re: Self-bailing cockpits vs bilge pumps
How old is that theory? They have been making dripless glands for a while now, no? And most boats built for outboards and I/O don't rely on leakage in...the drier the better......Limber holes are critical and required in areas of known water intrusion....but if a designer using the latest methods tries to seal as many true compartments as possible, they will limit there design of limber holes only to "known" areas of leakage such as the center drain and anchor lockor...I don't think anyone designs a boat to leak through thru-hulls, rub rail joints, bow rail fasteners etc....I dont want to rely on a battery operated pump that may not see me for several weeks and is sitting in the ocean year round...I'm looking for a good design to keep that stuff out.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
6 years 6 months ago #2069 by skipperwbw
skipperwbw replied the topic: Re: Self-bailing cockpits vs bilge pumps

Leotis wrote: Weep Holes, Gotta have them. Bilge Pumps, Gotta have them. Creating a way for water to get into the bilge and depending on a mechanical device to pump the water out? Not a good idea, especieally on a composite wood core boat, and not a good idea on any boat as far as i am concerned. I witnessed a production boat, foam filled production boat rot from the inside out, and it did not have an ounce of wood in it. Yes fiberglass will breakdown after long term exposure to gas, oil, saltwater, and whatever else ends up in the bilge. There is no way to keep water out of the bilge but the drier your bilge stays the longer your boat lasts. just my expierience..


Actually...(at least in tug-boats) the whole reason for drip packing, and packing glands, WAS and IS to allow water into the boat, and rely on the bilge to pump it out.. The water coming in through the packing gland IS absolutely crucial to keeping the shafts from over heating.....so...if it's not letting a steady drip of water into the bilge, it's TOO tight....

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
6 years 7 months ago - 6 years 7 months ago #2000 by marolina
marolina replied the topic: Re: Self-bailing cockpits vs bilge pumps
I ran one of our county's rescue boats. It was loaded with all kinds of gear; Gumbie suits included. We also ran and still run a great program using PWCs to quickly put emergency medical staff onboard vessels whose passengers may be suffering a heart or brain episode. Can't beat them for speed!

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
6 years 7 months ago #1990 by skipperwbw
skipperwbw replied the topic: Re: Self-bailing cockpits vs bilge pumps
I agree with trying to keep as much water as possible on the "outside" of the hull.... I just also am a proponent of ensuring that there is an engineered path for it to follow to the bilge pump from every compartment on the boat. I'm not a huge fan of that flotation/buoyancy foam, just for the reason of it trapping moisture and promoting internal rot......

and about that Chesapeake water..........do you have your "Gumby Suit" handy at all times???/ I sure hope so, because like you said, water that temperature can be fatal in less than a minute.......

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
6 years 7 months ago #1989 by marolina
marolina replied the topic: Re: Self-bailing cockpits vs bilge pumps
as a general measure of safety I feel we should do what we can to keep water out of boats!, funny this appears now as here on the chesapeake there have been two near fatal "accidents" in 36 degree water, because people "let water in the boats by means of a outboard motor cutout, taking a 4-5 footer over the transome is never good!, and once its in the boat you better have a dozen of the best bildge pumps running because she is going down faster then its going to go out! I have a great deal of expierenace in saving people who find themselves in such peril some are lucky and the are "saves" others are not!.

I know alot of people who think Oh well if you have to get in the water ,I can swin amd I have flotation sure if the water temps are high. but when it 36 degrees its only minutes these guys were lucky they only lost the boat and gear, a sharp eyed skipper near bye noticed the boat turned turttle and raced in to facilitate the rescue ,,

Bottom line I am choosing to keep the water OUT!

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
6 years 7 months ago #1988 by Leotis
Leotis replied the topic: Re: Self-bailing cockpits vs bilge pumps
Weep Holes, Gotta have them. Bilge Pumps, Gotta have them. Creating a way for water to get into the bilge and depending on a mechanical device to pump the water out? Not a good idea, especieally on a composite wood core boat, and not a good idea on any boat as far as i am concerned. I witnessed a production boat, foam filled production boat rot from the inside out, and it did not have an ounce of wood in it. Yes fiberglass will breakdown after long term exposure to gas, oil, saltwater, and whatever else ends up in the bilge. There is no way to keep water out of the bilge but the drier your bilge stays the longer your boat lasts. just my expierience..

Wish I were building 22 ENVI Offshore Center Console "Ultimate"

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Time to create page: 0.266 seconds